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Isabeau DeBurgh, a beautiful woman with a hot temper and a vocabulary to match, earns a living at what she does best--highway robbery. But the night she tries to rob Lord Griffin Stone, an aristocratic black sheep just back from America, her luck runs out; he wounds her in a sword fight.

Griffin won't turn Isabeau over to the authorities who might hang her nor turn her loose to steal, so he decides to take her home, dress her up and teach her the finer points of etiquette. Meanwhile Isabeau develops a soft spot in her heart for Griffin, as he does for her. And why not? Compared to the rest of the crew, a mere thief looks pretty attractive.

Winniekuhl, I think I have solved the mystery of I knew it sounded familiar, I just had a hard time coming up with the name. It is Birdie by Taylor Ryan. It is a Harlequin Historical published in Actually, a copy is being sold on ebay right now if you want to look at it. I probably shouldn't be so confident. After all I could be wrong. But I hope I'm not. Let me know if I got it. Thanks megkrahl, I read the desciption and it is not it.

Thanks for trying! Hi Winnie, i thought it might be The Rogue and the Hellion by Connie Mason as she is a highwayman, but found out to be a girl, he takes her back to teach her a lesson but she turns out to be a lady! But then i realised it wasn't published until , might have been re-released, but i thought it was worth a mention just incase Hope you find what yr looking for! Her flirtatious sister, Daphne, is engaged to a man who will only inherit if he is married by a certain date. Daphne elopes, leaving behind a note and her wedding dress. Sophie shows up at the altar, but Alex, the bridegroom, recognizes her for who she is.

They agree to marry to allow him to inherit and her to save face for her sister. It does sound familiar, but I am at a loss as well. The names of the sisters are different, but the plot sounds very similar. In the Bradley story, the sisters are twins. Could be it. I found a description: Lovely Sophia Forest was a very intellectual young lady for the year in Regency England--quite different from her beautiful and flighty sister, Daphne. All London was agog when Sophia rather than Daphne wed the dashing Earl of Gresham, whose scorn for bookish females was well-known.

The marriage was intended as a business arrangement only--to preserve the Earl's fortune and give Sophia financial independence. But what was Sophia to do when she found herself enamoured of her husband, though too proud to admit it? Sophia needed all her wit and womanly wiles in a game of pretense and passion, to make the man she loved, love her. We'll see if it's the right one. It's original copyright date was Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me find the names of two books I read some years ago.

I believe they were published around always before August I believe they are from British authors. They are both romances. One has a yellow cover with little cakes or cupcakes - I don't recall on them. She shares her house with some friends. The book is really funny. The other one has a light blue cover and I don't remember the story that well. I do know that in the end, the guy gives the girl a unique rose that he himself well, his company I guess created by matching 2 types of roses.

In this last one, I just remembered that in the beginning, the girl is trying some clothes in a shop and afraid of a bee runs topless through the shop and bumps into the guy. Well, I know it's not much, but if anyone could help, I'd be very grateful. Thank you very much. I love that you guys have this section. New here, so please bear with me. I also think she had a girlfriend who runs a local bookshop.

I know it isn't much to go on, but every time I think I may be remembering more of the story I start to think I'm combining two stories into one. It's driving me batty. Nyah99 -- yellow cover with possible cupcakes reminds me of He Loves Lucy by Susan Donovan , but I'm not sure that's your book. This one takes place in Miami?

The heroine has a goal to lose weight for publicity with the hero being her trainer. Not one of the Bridgertons I'll dig around a bit and see if I can come up with a title. Thank you so much both of you. Thank you again. Thank you for your help. I've just found the name of the other book. First of all, its cover is not blue, but white. Aviddiva- Thanks. It could be Amanda Quick, though I still can't seem to place it. And it seems like she has several with trading places type themes. I'll keep digging thru her stuff and see, though I appreciate you still looking as well.

The Duke's grandfather corresponds with the heroine and carries on the courtship. Grandpa dies and when grandson comes back from the war, he finds out he is engaged to her. Grandson goes to confront her, she thinks he is the new footman she has hired and the story then continues. It's pretty funny actually.

Hope this helps. In that book, the hero is disguised as the heroine's butler. He is a spy and the powers that be believe that her deceased husband had something of importance he was a spy too. There is also a Julia Quinn where the hero shows up and pretends to be her estate manager or something similar. She's the impoverished daughter of an earl or something similar who is working as a paid companion to a crotchety old lady who's nephew is a Marquis posing as her estate manager to get to the bottom of who is blackmailing her.

Very funny and entertaining! Thanks guys. Oddly, I have missed all of those and will now be reading those to see if maybe I've just lost my entire peas sized brain and maybe DID actually read one of those. Hopefully it'll come to me soon as it's still tickling the back of my mind constantly. Very sad I tell you. Thanks again! I'm pretty sure its a historical romance but all i remember is that the hero if the book is sold at an auction. He is bought by a woman for her daughter. I don't remember the name or the author of the book. I have a vague memory of one like that as well, but can't quite place it.

I need some help with a book title too, It's a historical romance and the lady poses as a highwayman to take cre of the estate.

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The lady also posed as an ugly crone on the night their supposed meeting. Not quite sure this fits the bill but My Lady Notorius by Jo Beverley has a highwayman heroine with a cruel father and brother. She is trying to protect her widowed sister and baby who the father is trying to marry off to some awful man.

The book is part of the Malloren series and takes place in Georgian England. The one you describe sounds familiar too but so far it's escaping me! Hi everyone! Here goes nothing I'm looking for a book that's been bugging me for about a month now. I don't know the title or author or character names. I think the "hero" is from a well-known, well-off family.

I know the "heroine" is from a poor family. She has red hair. I'm not sure if she has an older brother or dad. I remember the first chapter or so clearly, but not sure if the rest when they're older is correct or from another story. I think the two sisters were off to the store I think the sister was hitting on the guy Sadly, that's all I remember. I keep thinking Linda Howard, but I just don't know Thank-you for any help you guys can give.

I will try my best to do the same. Thank you again! It is! Thank-you so much! I cannot believe how I could have overlooked that! I had a feeling it might've been Linda Howard Thank-you again! Hi Suge, I tried to read all the threads and it doesn't look as if anyone had named your book, but I have the answer! It was one of the first romance novels I ever owned and one I go back to and reread every now and then!

Hi, all--I'm trying to find a certain book. It was out in paperback before probably well before that. The setting is definitely 19th century or earlier nobility, etc. I remember two main things about it: earlier on, there's a scene where the heroine is in the library with the hero moonlight, filmy nightgown, lots of sexual tension ; later, he kidnaps her and they're in an inn--very steamy sex then.

If any of you can help, it would be much appreciated! Isisreads, if you reverse the order of the scenes with the library later than the inn , there are two scenes very similar to what you've described in Judith Ivory 's Untie My Heart. It's my least favourite Ivory book but lots of other people absolutely love it.

Of course, an inn and a library are kind of popular settings for historical romance, so any other details you can supply might help readers here pinpoint the book you're looking for. I'm looking for a book I read around 5 or 6 years ago so let's say for starters that I picked up at a book sale at the local library. So it had probably been around for a while before that. The setting of the novel is I believe in a sort of system similar to 19th or 18th century England where there were still nobles around that controlled estates and whatnot. Additionally, fine carriages and at least unsophisticated firearms were around too if I remember correctly.

The plot revolves around a heroine named Kate or something similar - I want to say her full name was Kathleen or Katherine or something along those lines who has gotten stuck with running the family estate because her brother, who should be in charge, is incompetent and doesn't really do anything. At the same time she's riding around in dark clothes on a black horse, holding up stagecoaches for some odd reason. It had to do with the family honor - I want to say she was looking to catch smugglers or something along those lines? Don't remember too well. But she's holding up these coaches looking for something.

Now a gentleman from somewhere else visits the estate for a bit for some reason or another and love begins to spark between him and Kate don't remember his name, sorry. He begins to deduce that she's the highwayman in question and follows her one night when she makes a run. Things go wrong on this trip and she gets shot by a guy in the carriage but the gentleman saves her and brings her back to her home. He then covers for her in order to make sure no one else found out about her double life.

Near the end of the story Kate finds that some of her brother's friends one creepy guy in particular who keeps on hitting on her are performing some criminal activity on the family land. She gets captured and the gentleman goes to save her, killing the ringleader in a duel. So yeah sorry there aren't too many specific details but that's what I remember from the book. Hope someone can help me find it - even a couple of general titles that might fit the profile would help! Gasharko, I don't know the name of the book you seek although it sounds tantalizingly familiar but this list of "highwayman" themed regencies, which includes stories with women in male bandit disguise, might help you find what you're looking for: Highwaymen themed romances at The Nonesuch.

Hello from Australia — I am searching for a book — unknown title or author The other central character is the dashing pirate who attempts to seduce and control her. Cheers from Aus, Tan. I need some help to name a book. I know the book was a Harlequin Presents I want to say around or later about a married guy who was dating another younger woman.

She stops the affair and he tries to convince her not to. He worked for father-in-law. The man's wife was a paralytic, and at the end of the book, she leaves the husband for her nurse? If anybody could remember the title, I would appreciate. It has been bothering me about remembering the title. Hi Guys, I am new to this group, and I was hoping to get some help finding a book i read around It is basically about a temporary housekeeper or a helper who is 8 months pregnant, and you later find out that she is a virgin. The owner of the house who is a businessman, ends up falling in love with her.

I think in the scene that she tells the hero that she is a virgin is where she is getting made fun off by local boys, as she is young and seen as easy because she winds up pregnant. She is actually a surrogate for her sister and her husband, but both die in an accident leaving her alone. To take care of herself and the child, she gets this temp job. I believe she is Italian. He also helps her give birth to the child in his house, which i think is a girl.

The last scene is of them getting married, and she is walking down the aisle, looking at the baby and thinking about everything. I have been trying to recall this book for a long time but as it is one of the first ones I read, I don't remember more about it. I have looked through many book lists and themed lists to find it including all romance writers, romancewiki, and fictiondb. I would really appreciate any help i get.

I think the heroine has never been rich, and I am positive the setting is in the U.

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But thanks anyways. Let me know if any others come to your mind. Maybe this one? Myles Wellington still grieved over the loss of his young wife, but when he learned that her sister, Faith, was carrying his child, he felt the stirrings of life inside he'd believed he'd never feel again! Faith had secretly agreed to help her sister give her husband this last gift, but she had her own reasons for wanting this child, wanting to give Myles something no one else could. She'd loved him for so long, had been so alone - until Myles insisted she live with him How could she share the same house with the man whose touch set her soul on fire, yet how could she resist grabbing at the chance fate had given her to have the only man she'd ever loved?.

Myles wanted this child, but he was shocked to discover he wanted Faith even more. Exulting in the intense desires she aroused in him to protect, to possess, Myles struggled to break free of the past. Could they put to rest their memories of the woman they'd both loved and build a future together? Sounds like the kind of plots they have. It could be presents, romance, or american romance. I just came across a special edition silhouette called An abundance of babies by Marie Ferrarella but it isnt the one, which is very similar! I am almost starting to feel like the book doesnt exist.

Any of you feel that way while looking for a book? I was searching through vintageromances. You said you read the book in the early 's so I've only been looking for books in that time frame, but could it also have been published in the 's? Also, is there anything you remember about the cover, such as color maybe? It is possible it was published in the late 90s. I was thinking the cover had yellow and blue on it Pregnant female butler 8-months along.

The book summary doesn't mention surrogacy, but the term did show up two times when I searched for that term in Google Books. XD The heroine is a surrogate for her aunt and uncle though. This is it!!! Yea I had a feeling the summary wouldn't mention surrogacy, but I was wrong about the sister and husband. Thank you so much! Once i saw the cover, I realized I have seen it before. Let me know if you need help finding a book, I'll be sure to return the favour. Hi guys i'am so glad to have found this place I have been looking for this Victorian romance about the hero being engaged since he was young by his father.

He falls in love with his newfound bride and so does she. But she tries to be more of a lady and so his best friend teaches her how to act in society while our hero is on a trip The sister in law is in a wheel chair and is trying to get rid of the heroine and also there are snipets of their past lives Sorry if it sounds confusing but I' ve been looking for this book forever! My name is Florecer and I am a new member of this group. First let me answer the question of Nyah99, the post number 84 about the last novel: the description sounds like "The Shocking Lord Standon" by Louise Allen, and is part of the Revenhurst Saga.

Here a leave the book description. He cannot honorably deny them, but he won't be forced into marriage. Encountering a respectable governess in scandalizing circumstances, Gareth demands her help—to make him entirely ineligible. He educates the buttoned-up Miss Jessica Gifford in the courtesan's arts. But Gareth hasn't bargained on such an ardent, clever pupil—or on his passionate response to her! He wanted to cause a stir—it seems they are about to brew a scandal!

The list the list in the correct order is: 1.

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Ravenhurst 6. Hurst 7. Now is my turn to have a question. I am looking for a book whose name and author I can not remember. The plot was somthing like this: two sisters twins are abducted by a bandit. This man promises to free one of the sisters if the other promises to stay with him. One of them grants the motion and gradually discovers that the villain has a noble heart. I read the description when I was looking for other books to read, but never wrote down the data of this book to read next. If any of you could tell me the name of the book or author, I am very grateful for your help.

Okay, I read this book several years ago, and can't remember what the title or author is. Its a Regency romance. The main female lives in the slums of England. I don't really remember who the hero was, he was an earl or something i think, and he takes her in and makes her over. But near the end of the book I think they have a fight and she returns to the slums just as a cholera outbreak hits. She has a prostitute friend who dies and because she then catches cholera as well, she loses the baby she was pregnant with.

I don't know the book and really want to read it again. She is English but she grew up in the Paris slums. The Earl seeks her out for revenge complicated plot and then agrees to marry her back in England. They have a short lived blissful time but then have a big disagreement she learns the truth about him and she goes back to Paris and the slums. There is a cholera epidemic there after she leaves him in England. I think she did lose a baby, but I can't remember for sure. It was a really good book. He has a scarred face and this is the last of a trilogy of brothers.

Is this it? Woohoo, a success story! Yay for a happy ending! I never know these, which is weird because I've read so many romances. Hi,I m looking for a harlequin I read many many years ago. The heroine is english and visits her cousin who lives in a farm in France i think with her husband. The heroine also helps out in the farm. Her cousin tries to ruin everything she does around the farm -remember an incident where the heroine cooks soup for the farm workers and the cousin drops soap in it on purpose to ruin it.

The farm owner who is her cousin's brother in law is very prejudiced against her. I want to read it again! Can't believe it really! I ve been looking for this book for so long and you just found it right away! I ve got another one but I am afraid that's much harder to find since I remember so little of it It's all thanks to the person who runs the Vintage Romances website. She breaks each book down by keywords and I use that to help me look for your book. I'm afraid the other book you are looking for is much harder since there isn't a lot of information to set it apart from any other medical romance, but I will try.

Hi everyone I was wondering if you can help me figure out the title of this book I read a little over a year ago It has to do with a wealthy girl who runs away from home to find herself in the streets. She becomes friends with a group or a "gang" of pickpockets. I distinctly remember that most of them were good kids expect for one of them who I believe was named Jack? I'm not quite so sure. There was also a character which was a small boy who grew fond of this girl. She would read to them every night. She also fell in love with the leader of the "gang".

The mean boy Jack tried to force himself on her and was shunned from the group. Jack teams up with an evil man who is the leader of a rival pickpocket gang and they try to take them out. By this time the girls older brother finds her and takes her back to her rich lifestyle. Can anyone help me? Theres also a sequel to that book. It is set later when the girl is a young lady and she meets again with the kid she fell in love with and they have an affair and blah blah you know the rest haha.

Also there's a book really similar to If You Deceive by Kresley Cole same time period I believe except: -Theres a poor girl who works at a bar and she meets this handsome lord. Anyways something happens that she goes back to where she lived neighborhood and gets herself really sick.

The lord comes to find her and her prostitute friend tells him that she died and was in this building where they keep the bodies. He finds her on the table and she was bleeding she had lost the babe and she recuperates and they live happily ever after I also believe he was extremely rich and he left his rather luxurious home to live downtown paris or another setting because something happened In any case, that's what I've been looking into.

Most of them seem to be doctor-nurse romances, but I couldn't find a nurse-patient book that fits your description. It's harder with older books because sometimes there isn't a description available, the description is short, or the description is vague. Would you like to do search on your own? Starlight genie - thank you so much for your help, I will try this website you mentioned! I was wondering if you could help me figure out what book this is it has be bugging me for ever not being able to figure it out! I remember very little about the book. I can't remember the title, author or even the character's names since its been a while since I read it The children aren't her own.

The kids were given up by their parents, because they were poor. Everyone is under the impression that the husband is kind by taking in these poor kids, but in reality he abuses them. I think he might've even been a pedophile? No one knows his secret except the heroine. But she escapes with these children and tries to go back and save the rest of them. I don't quite remember how she meets the hero of the story, but I think he's titled as well and he tries to help out the heroine by formulating a plan since her husband is well-known.

Random facts I remember about from this book is that the heroine was also abused by her husband and I think punished by being put in a cage? Hope that made sense Thanks in advance! Hello all new here as well. I know a knight inherits land but when he gets there its been razed. The cover was all reds with a girl leaning backwards in a beautiful gown with a man holding her i think but i might be blending stories Thank you! Hi klkeefe, I think I read something like that not to long ago though it wasn't medieval but more Regency.

But it rings a bell. Not sure if I'm not mixing up two books though. It sounds a little like Fairest of them All by Theresa Medeiros, but I don't think the plot points all match up. The heroine is a beauty in disguise, but I don't remember the land being razed. I have been searching for a contemporary romance novel for years.

The heroine thinks she is dating a guy but he is an FBI agent? I believe she is a secretary and it looks as if her boss is involved in baby smuggling or some other type of illegal activity. She is taken down to the police station, in front of everyone at work I believe and the young brash agent along with his older much more mature partner question her for hours. The brash agent even scares her by mentioning having to go into witness protection. They are apparently holding her long enough so they can install a wire tap in her house. When she meets up with him the hero who wants revenge against this man kidnaps her and gets shot in the process.

I think the guy was going to kill her after she gave him the information. They hole up in a hotel for a while, he is a widower and his ex-wife was a supermodel? Remember her having to wear some of her clothing and then they made out on the balcony but he gets distracted when he sees the magazine she was reading which has the dead wives face on it.

They fall in love and get together for the first time while out dancing one night. I also believe she is a red head and is described as making a transition as the story goes on gaining confident and not appearing as mousy in looks anymore. Sorry for the long post guys, this book has been driving me crazy! Hi everyone. I think it was a Harlequin romance but I'm not positive. Here is what it's about: The book starts in the past when the main female character's father had just died. Her best friend's brother - whom she had a crush on as a child - asks her to marry him as a friend and move away - I think to the middle east, maybe Dubai?

Anyway, the female character was a librarian at home but when they move away, he is busy working in the construction business, so she begins writing. She becomes a very popular crime writer while they are away - unbeknownst to him. Then his father has a heart attack and they must come home - I'm thinking about 3 yrs later. While back home they must act like an actual couple - so they have to sleep in the same room and of course things begin to change.

While home he is asked to take over his father's company, and he also finds out about her writing accomplishments - and of course they start to have a relationship. Does this sound familiar to anyone??? Hope someone can help! I'm hoping someone will be able to help me find a book that I read in the late 80's or early 90's The male was wrongly sent to serve out a sentence in the penal colony. There is a ship with a mate named Toby.

Female is Elyse I think. The story progresses with bits and pieces of past lives of the man and woman and how they are trying to find their way to each other. Part of the story is about white roses and red roses and what they stand for. Either stained glass or paintings in the manor house sparks a memory for Elyse. It was a great book I read as a teenager. My mom cleaned out my hoards of romance novels years ago. I have tried searching on-line. It's tough not remembering the title,author or even the characters names.

Does this sound familiar to anyone???? Later as an adult he meets up with his childhood friend, who is the heroine of the book. Hello, another new member : I am so glad I found this! It is a regency romance and the heroine for some reason disguises herself as a footman? He goes to extremes to keep her safe, even almost killing her because a fire breaks out while she is locked in her room.

He becomes very close to the heroine and has a strange attraction to her strange because he doesn't know she is female and he is a known skirt chaser. I also really remember that her gender is revealed during a fencing match between the two of them. Everything but the writing is great, which is primarily their jobs. Love the recap, hope we get that sexy scandalous tell-all to learn why the rush to finish something; you spend 10 years working on, that you are going to be defined by.

Leuf : While there are numerous examples of Daenerys being ruthless with her enemies, this is also the person who locked up her dragons, her children, because they ate one kid. But you are ignoring all of her character development after locking the dragons up! It was never the love of the people that made Dany a ruler—it was the dragons. The whole scene with the tutor in Mereen. Tyrion having to deal with the slavers coming back at him while she was gone. She chose fear long before the scene with Jon last night.

Even the stupid scene where Rhaegal dies makes more sense now. Holding back, showing mercy, has cost her everything in her eyes by the time she hears those bells in KL. She chooses fear like Cersei chooses violence. And there is no other choice for either of them. The path to power requires it. She sat there on Drogon and waited. She waited for the bells; she waited for their surrender; she listened to them cry out in terror for her to stop. She believes herself to be owed adoration and fealty.

Chalking this up to insanity is a disservice to both character and episode. She has done something horrific, and she did it because she wanted to. Completely agree! I have re-watched the previous seasons back to back now and starting from Season 1, after Drogo gives her brother the golden crow, you see she already has the beginnings of her mental state. Then, with the Unsullied merchant, she burns him. Yeah, he was a douche, but still, she burns him and turns the Unsullied on the slavers. Again, they were terrible people, but was it really required to kill them? Even Jorah and Barristan Selmy had looks of fear on their faces.

No wonder the north and Westeros fear her. And when she finds that Jon cannot return his love to her the way she wants, she chooses fear, rather than possibly trying to work together with him. In other words, she will not give up the throne because she feels she is owed that throne. So, as much as it might seem this story line was rushed, it started way back in Season 1, Episode 6 right when Viserys dies and just escalates from there. I think that was the goal until she executed the ex-slave for the murder of the Sons of the Harpy in their cells. Also, remember when she was adamant about Jon bending the knee?

He eventually did for what he thought was the good of the North which it was. That seems like a pretty braggart way of introducing herself. She was using all those titles to instill fear into those she took over. Not much different than the Huns and other brutal dictators and savages in our own history. No, overall, her story line was fleshed out in great detail, but they wrote it in a way where we felt for her and sided with her. Look at Jamey Lannister. And last night, I even felt sorry for Cersei because she finally realized she lost the game and was losing her child.

Plot hole right there, but still, I did feel bad for her. Jamie in many ways was flawed and this was probably going to be how it was going to end. They were born together so they die together with their unborn child. So now, what happens? Does Arya become the Queen Killer? So many innocents killed by her wrath and selfishness. Should be a good finale. I hated Cersei at the end of last episode and had found her smugness over the last couple of seasons pretty infuriating to the point that I was just ready for her to die. Yet last night, when she was crying and when Jaime found her, I felt so sorry for her.

It may be the sudden stark contrast of Cersei, who we know to be a horrible person who committed a terrible crime when she blew up the sept, suddenly shown to be the less evil of the two rivalling queens as Dany just torches the entire city, slaughtering a million people, that caught me by surprise and manipulated my emotions into making me more sympathetic for Cersei. My husband thought I was mad, but I was crying for her.

Sansa should have kept her mouth shut, her obsession of power over the North put Jon in a dangerous position. She has a big dragon in case you missed it Sansa! And Bran — Mr all knowing and all seeing — why was it so urgent to tell Jon who he was before all this played out? If Bran knows something — which he obviously does — is it worth the lives of thousands of innocents? Did he expect that Dany would just step aside and leave Westeros? Didnt the valonquar propechy say you will die with little brothers hands wrapped around your neck? I think the books will be even darker.

All crowd pleasing moments were show-only. I think both Tyrion and Jon will be darker than they are in the show. I mean he has to make Jon darker for him to fall in love with Dany.

See a Problem?

And if Dany burns Meereen in the books, I could see her and Tyrion being two bitter and crazy villains that are coming to destroy Westeros. How to make all these things work? Plus he has even more storylines and characters in his books. Great post! The rush to finish this series in six episodes leaves certain elements unfinished, particularly character motivations. Regardless, I enjoyed the episode overall.

Sure — there was some silliness. The GC added nothing; just more bodies to be roasted. The fight between Euron and Jaime was unnecessary. At least Euron died as the clown he was throughout the series. Jaime was one of my favorite characters but I never imagined that his redemption arc would be completed. I liked the character because he was conflicted and complicated.

I never expected that, in the end, he would do what I wanted him to do: stay with Brienne and let Cersei suffer her fate alone. Having said that, I am annoyed that Cersei died with someone to comfort her. While I am not surprised by her actions in this episode, I am saddened by them. She confirmed the worst fears of her supporters and detractors. He sees his beloved queen for what she is and what giving up KITN and denying Iron throne his rightful titles has cost.

Tycho Nestoris : Adam ,. But that IS the point! We are ALL Hitler with our own agendas. You saw her struggle already over the last 9 years. It is very bleak. The one surprise I thought would happen is Yara showing up , to help battle the Iron Fleet, and her taking care of Euron … seems like a missed beat to me. The books will never be finished. It would have to be at leas t eight books in my opinion. I totally get where you are coming from, I think it could have been handled better with maybe only a few extra scenes.

I can however buy the fact that he knew and loved Cersei all his life, and as much as he has changed for the better and maybe he understands Brienne and she understands him more than anyone, more than Cersei. So the question for him is whether he could live with the fact she is executed or killed on her own, does he now care so little for her and so much for Brienne that as a Lannister who grew up with Tywin as his father..

The answer was no.. If Bran knows something — which he obviously does — is it worth the lives ofthousands of innocents? Perhaps it would help if you clarified which purposes of other people were so unworthy of dying for. Even better, she would have never asked Jon to bend his own knee. So he does the best thing he can — he schemes for what will come once he is not there. Sansa did the right thing. Dany had no business in asking of Jon the thing she did in the first place. Knight of the Walkers : mau ,. Well he will either rush it or there will be no ending at all.

I do wonder if Jon will decide to renounce all his claims to go back north and live with the Free Folk, not as their king but just another ordinary Joe. He can then meet up with Ghost again and pet him lavishly. Jon did accept to become the KITN. If not for Dany, he would have accepted the Iron Throne as well. Before all this last season happened, that is. I only aim this at those who accuse Sansa and only want to admire Dany. She has dragons.

She has been going down that road since the start of episode one. She was extremely arrogant. She fought against her inner demons but when those who had the power to check her worst impulses were taken away — Jorah and Missandei — she became consumed with her sense of entitlement. She made no attempt to win over the northerners when she arrived in Winterfell when she was warned they would view her with suspicion. Her smug look when the northerners ran from her dragons as they marched into Winterfell said a lot. When Sansa asked her what would happen to the north, there was suddenly a change from the friendly Dany to a cold hard stare.

I want it ALL!! Losing Jorah and Missandei and two of her dragons was too much to bear, but rather than unleashing that fury on her enemies alone, she quite calculating turned it on to about a million innocents instead. On and on and on, blasting and bombing them whilst going nowhere near the red keep. Sad for her character she as could have been a great Queen had things been different.

Tycho Nestoris : I apologize for singling you out but this quote is infuriating. Ser Not Appearing in this Series : ygritte ,. OK how about …He can then meet up with Ghost again and pet him lavishly only to be surprised and killed by a fucking Thenn? They seemed like a nice alternative in hindsight. Or hell maybe the Iron Bank can come collect and install a puppet.

We are all Hitlers. I respectfully disagree. At least in terms of narrative fiction. Bilbo had that ring for how long and it never turned him this homicidal. Still, supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic fiery ceremony. It was actually Bran warging into Daenerys. Btw how come the people in the city knew to ring the bells for surrender?

Reading Groups

It was discussed only outside the walls. That was a greater puzzle for me while watching than why is Daenerys doing whatever it is she did. Not a big issue, ofc, just one of many. Best episode of the season by far. I was so glad to finally see someone kill Euron, crazy bastard. Jaime and Cersei dying together, I actually felt some pitty for them, it was sad, beautiful and poetic the way they died. And my girl Daeny, she lit it up, up, up, she lit it up, up, up she was on fire.

But Jon has done his share of killing people too. I was reading book 5 last night and the Jon chapter where he kills Janos, yes Janos was an ass, but did he truly deserve to be beheaded? There is nothing left to rule, just start over again, literally from the ground up. When Tyrion mentioned it to Dany, he spoke of it like it was common knowledge. I have just had it with that quote and felt compelled to write something. Dany knew she would never be loved, but she could be feared.

Sack Kings Landing now and secure power.. The population of Kings Landing would never accept her, even if they surrendered the city, they would mistrust her. She thinks Sansa in the North would continuously plot to remove her from power. At least this way people would think twice before challenging her. Very extreme on the people of Kings Landing, this kind of thing has happened throughout real life history.

America dropped two nuclear bombs on innocent people and claimed it was for the greater good.. Dany did the same thing in a much more conflicted emotional way, but she did what she said she was going to do… take the Iron Throne. OK how about …He can then meet up with Ghost again and pet him lavishly only to be surprised andkilled by a fucking Thenn?

America dropped those bombs to force the Japanese to surrender when they had refused to do so. How does that compare to someone dropping bombs after the surrender when they achieved their goal? Very, different. Anyone paying attention knew that this would be a dark episode and the Mad Queen would have her day. Ragnarok in KL!


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A few points stood out: — I was surprised at how useless Jon was during the episode. Deer in the headlights, man. Your cousin is the ruler of ashes. No need to blab further about it. Glad Cersei and him ended together. Brienne was a fantasy, Cersei was his reality. Sandor has my respect many times over. Maybe too easily though…? The helplessness of the victims was quite jarring.

I enjoyed reading the many theories about this episode from the Disney fans, bleak realists, and the anti-fans. Many were quite fascinating. I still fear for both Jon and Dany…neither will rule, imho. I think Jon is going to have some serious PTSD after all the battles he has been thru, so maybe going back to the free folk might be the best thing for him. After sleeping on it, I still stand by my opinion. The season needed a little more time.

Not even that much, just some window into the head spaces of Jaime, Dany and Sansa so their motives are clear. Other than that, spectacular episode. War is hell. And the people who suffer the most are civilians and frontline soldiers. This episode was an indictment of action movie audiences as much is it is of the powerful people playing their games to get or keep power. I think you could be right. Fireside boozy nights with Tormund and his faithful dire wolf.

Get yourself up to the real north Jon and get a shifty on. Gilly is a wilding after all and Sam is his bestie. Or am I wishing for too much lol. Did anyone catch the connection of Varys trying to poison Daeny? Hodors Bastard : Anyone paying attention knew that this would be a dark episode and the Mad Queen would have her day.

Cersei investment was silly and worthless in the face of Targ chaos. You could see he had reservations at the beginning and then his profound relief when the Lannister soldiers threw down their swords and bells rang. He thought they had secured an relatively easy victory, but then all hell broke loose and he quite rightly did not join in in the slaughter.

We see him go from shocked, to horrified, to ashamed at being a part of it , to repulsed by his own man trying to rape and pillage , to desperation at the end when he makes his forces retreat. I think this was a perfect way for Jon to be present, but not party to the terrible crimes against the people that Dany and her forces committed. I think the scenes of her running through the crumbling, burning city were so beautifully shot and really hit home the terrible plight of the Kings Landingers.

Sorry, but a few months ago you had made an article with photos of Jon and Cersei looking out of a window. There were also directors. Is it possible that many scenes have been cut? Or is there a risk of a few backlashes? Azor Asshai : Tyrion Pimpslap ,. Too expected.

Same for Arya. Dany obliterating KL reminded me of the story of Harrenhal. Dragons destroying that castle to finally end the first Targaryen conquest of Westeros. Why was golden company even in Season 8? Could they have just used more of the endless supply of Lannister troops instead? I suppose they were included since they are in Dorne in the books. Maybe the real Sansa died in season 5 and a FM has been impersonating her since.

Before I Let You In

Well, Arya may have wished to kill queen Cersei, but she never had the least intention to sacrifice her own life for that. She knew that with her abilities she could kill Cersei whenever and wherever she pleased, there was no need to take any risks. Team Targaryan : Did anyone catch the connection of Varys trying to poison Daeny? Knowing what Dany did, you still think Varys was wrong to turn on her and try to take her out before she could inflict the carnage she did last night? This was not something that she needed to do to take the throne through fear — they are already afraid of her — this was more primal, emotional and vengeful.

She had already won. Varys saw what kind of Targaryen she was. Ashara D : But that IS the point! How is that the point? She is the first person to completely level a city of a million innocent people. Countless people have had the opportunity to do this for millennia and none of them ever did.

Only her. Every person on the show who has had any power at all has had to watch their friends die and be betrayed by those who were serving them. Zero of them reacted by murdering a million people who had nothing to do with it. Ok nut job Dany aside, Cersei has consistently been shown to be a truly brilliant mastermind when dealing with her enemies. But in this episode, facing probably the most significant threat to her position ever, all we have is her standing around weeping. From my perspective this felt really odd for this character; she really had a lot of reasons to pull out all the stops to survive, but there was no plan beyond the obvious.

I guess the missing elephants really took the wind out of her sails? There will be a montage of all the named characters, a kind of then and now thing, with the Green Day song Good Riddance Time of your life playing in the background. Che : We see him go from shocked, to horrified, to ashamed at being a part of it , to repulsed by his own man trying to rape and pillage , to desperation at the end when he makes his forces retreat. Well put! My only addition is that Jon will be tainted by the chaos simply because he sided with the foreign invader usurper? The tension between Dany and him will be insurmountable in the next episode, possibly leading the demise or decay of both.

Interesting irony there! The show in and of itself needs to make sense not just assuming previous knowledge. I get you, Dany was in no way justified, from our point of view. From her point of view she sees it as justified, shes in a pretty strong position now. She has won for now. I just meant history is littered with horrific events and depending on the point of view someone would have tried to justify it at some point.

If Ramsey had a dragon the whole of Westeros would have been in serious trouble. I feel sorry for her, because her life lead to this. The emotions she had while looking at the red keep, deciding to destroy the city… wow!! If GRRM wants ice spiders and glass candles and faceless men and wargs and Iron Banks and magic horns and battles at sea, his only limit is imagination.

People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. But again, countless people throughout the history and lore of Westeros and Essos have been down this path. Countless people have faced hardship and seen their friends murdered and been betrayed by their own advisers.

Many of these people had dragons and armies. Many were kings and queens and conquerors. Many of them had inner demons and bad impulses. Some of them were just flat-out evil people with no hint of redemptive qualities. There is no way to logically lead a character down a road that many people have been down yet lead to a place that no one else has ever ended up.

Scallone : Sorry, but a few months ago you had made an article with photos of Jon and Cersei looking out of a window. Ser Not Appearing in this Series , Che ,. People love that wolf lol. I like dogs too of course but I mean, Ghost, or rather the lack of him, has been a sore spot for many. I was glad though that Euron did finally meet his end.

And If you think Jon plot armor is Crazy, aryas is out of this world, everyone in the city gets burned , or has buildings above them orwere butchered by dothrakis but not Her, only for in the end finds a random horse and get out of the city. The fight between euron and Jaime i and dont even have words for How horrible It was and everything about It, and after stabs Jaime can walk ALL castle and die standing like It was nothing hahaha,And can someone say to me what Davos is doing this season??

Biggest disappointment ever! Almost makes me wish I never watched this show. I will wait for the books and we shall see whether this ever was the ending. Reason no 1. Or did Arya also have some inexplicably treasonous reason to not support Dany despite Dany actively participating in battle of Winterfell. At that time, since Rhaegal and Missandei were alive, Dany would have agreed to stay back and give time for Smart Sansa to allow northern army to heal.

Reason no 2: Dany wanting to travel on dragon with Sand snakes fleet no scorpion in picture till then : counseled against by Tyrion. Result: Loss of one battle. Dany suggesting to show her true might and destroy just the red keep: counseled against it. So Bran wants Dany not to rule as well. And how do you show family drama otherwise! Reason no 5: Tormund implies that no one apart from Jon could ride a dragon in front of Dany!

After Dany saved him beyond the wall as well. Reason no 6: Varys tries to harm Dany in all ways possible. How convenient! Could have so easily accepted that action as fear of his visions but no, how does that advance mad Dany. Reason no 7: Sansa just decides to hate Dany because North! Because she won it by so much toil and would have managed Winterfell just fine without Dany.

Reason no 9: Grey Worm is also mad. Maybe he was a secret Targ after all! They have no angry scale. Good or mad. Reason no The person who cages her children for killing one innocent child decides to willfully kill innocent children. I would have accepted her burning red keep but everything in the way is too harsh. Reason no Dany got Dothraki army without using Dragon. Conquered cities with few deaths. Allowed people to choose to serve her or go away unharmed. But after Tyrion and Varys!

You know the answer. In short every character behaves out of character just to support the lazy writing of isolating Dany and portraying her as a mad queen. If this is good literature, I hope I stay away from good literature in future. In my thinking, Jaime has a clear redemption arc, an identity arc and a relationship arc. Theon we meet as a good guy, then, he makes a mistake, he suffers, he feels remorse, then he will redeem himself by doing something great to compensate I think.

Maybe the best measure of Jaime redemption arc is what percentage viewers hated him in S1 vs how many hated him up S8 episode 4. This not about time spent with the character, we spent time with Ramsay and Jon and I do not think many changed about Ramsay or Jon. GRRM introduces Jaime as a bad guy and then he unveils him like an onion and tells us the back story. Jaime himself has regrets in his life re Bran but as a character he is not dominated by personal remorse.

GRRM ensures that he is punished anyway with the loss of his hand and that event also starts the identity arc. Jaime also confesses to Cat and they agree a plan to settle all debts by securing her daughters. You notice Jaime only apologizes to Bran when he goes to Winterfell — he not moved by sorrow as Theon. The old post spoke about his identity arc he doing things for love and his duality both internal inside Jaime and external with Cersei.

I may come back to this later if I have time. His relationship arc is still a bit of a puzzle. He was strictly faithful to Cersei for years so that was clear and you could their relationship erode over time. Jaime was running on commitment only by the end. So think the pregnancy was a critical point for them. But then after he bedded Brienne after establishing an emotional connection with her since Season2.

I knew it would happen but now I am not sure what to make of it. I am almost sorry he slept with her — for her sake. I really hope they do not make her end up pregnant as a consolation prize. Nor for goodness sake, write stories about him in the book that should be burnt up anyway. Still trying to process this episode. Compression of the story to fit the hours they have left, continues to hurt the overall narrative.

At some point or another, almost all of us have probably rooted for her…. And now to see her turn that wrath indiscriminantly on the KL civilians, it makes us feel uncomfortably complicit in her actions, just as Jon and Arya did. Morale high ground is an illusion. The only way to win, is not to play. Not just Tyrion and Jon. I think all the other Starks will go dark too Arya, Bran, Sansa in the books. Lol tis true dat. If only they had relied a bit more on the latter less the former.

Why should we believe that? When Lord Cerwyn refused to pay his taxes, he could have skinned the entire castle alive and no one could have stopped him. He skinned one man to make an example to the others. He was a sadistic evil maniac who reveled in torturing one person at a time, but we never had any indication he was capable of and willing to commit mass murder at anywhere near this scale. Daenerys killed more people in under an hour than the White Walkers killed in 8 seasons.

Not even the malevolent evil force of pure destruction for its own sake did as much damage as she did. You know who is an actual tragic figure? Daenerys is just another cartoon supervillain, except somehow worse than all the other ones who came before her. Daeny did pause while looking at the Red Keep.

But I think she was just so overcome by all the loss that has befallen her in this short time, Missandi, Ser Jorah, Rhaegal, Jon rejecting her after she went to WF to help him fight. Really she should have gone after Cersei first, then the people of KL would not have suffered, and then gone to WF to help with the defeat of the NK.

It still would have made for great TV, but for whatever reason the writers want to take Daeny down this road. Also, everyone to Dany, we would help in reducing your army and then wont fight for you. Maybe even pass your info to your enemies. Also, will conveniently ask you for help in wars. When you have only your one Dragon and Unsullied, we will call you mad to even use the Dragon and go to the extent of poisoning you.

And please trust everybody surrenders on sounding bells when literally everyone you have known in Westeros wants to kill you and has betrayed you. Sounds cool! And then you yourself kill children. Very few people are Hitlers. In other words, warriors develop ethics. In this case, Dany who has been developed as a warrior of sorts and trained to use violence in reasonable amounts has been turned into an unhinged teenager who set her school on fire, because she has found a box of mathes and because she had problems boyfriend and his snarky sisters.

He ended up protecting someone he loved. We have seen him do this for her before, for Tyrion, for Brienne, for Westeros. Now this is the Thrones tie-in I have always wanted. Anyone else think it was weird and random? Just me…? I am also confused why Dany can just take out the entire Iron Fleet this episode but not the previous episode.